Clutch Recall (2/23/23): Clutch Pressure Plate May Overheat -- Affecting 70,000 Manual Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators

[Geoarch]

Does anybody have high miles on a stock manual without a problem? I am at 22k with no issues yet.

12,000 with no issues, and I rock crawl.

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[hjdca]

Does anybody have high miles on a stock manual without a problem? I am at 22k with no issues yet.

I have a 2020 JTR with a manual and 60K miles. No issues. I have 37" tires since 20K miles and 5:13 gears. I mostly rock crawl, and have done 4 Badge of honor trails multiple times. The Clutch seems fine to me. Note: I am mostly in 4WD low and with the 5:13 gears, the clutch is rarely needed.

 

[seven30]

For those who don't want to gamble on Jeep's "fix", here's a deal for you:

That looks like an actual upgrade!! Too bad my stock clutch is perfect at 58K. But at least I know what Ill be replacing with when its day is done.

 

[seven30]

I have a 2020 JTR with a manual and 60K miles. No issues. I have 37" tires since 20K miles and 5:13 gears. I mostly rock crawl, and have done 4 Badge of honor trails multiple times. The Clutch seems fine to me. Note: I am mostly in 4WD low and with the 5:13 gears, the clutch is rarely needed.

58k on the Mojave clutch. Moderate trail use but lots of trailer pulling. Did take about 2500 miles to bed in.

 

[ruggburnout]

The recall schedule was updated in the NHTSA recall document. MY23 should have been notified this week or any day now. I have MY21, so waiting until some time after Jan 2, 2024.

Apparently, the fix is a software update that isn't supposed to affect power... not sure how that is possible. The replacement clutch is being thrown in as part of the recall.

**08/01/2023: FCA US will notify dealers and begin notifying owners, in phases, starting with the 2023 model year vehicles on or about 09/19/2023, 10/24/2023 for 2018 model year vehicles, 11/24/2023 for 2019 model year vehicles, 12/05/2023 for 2020 model year vehicles, 01/02/2024 for 2021 model year vehicles, and 01/23/2024 for 2022 model year vehicles.

 

[AustinL911]

Another F'n software update.

I hope the UAW folds Stellantis in half.

 

[Rahkmalla]

Apparently, the fix is a software update that isn't supposed to affect power... not sure how that is possible. The replacement clutch is being thrown in as part of the recall.

These two sentences seem a bit contradictory, care to explain in more detail?

 

[ruggburnout]

These two sentences seem a bit contradictory, care to explain in more detail?

They are replacing the clutch assembly as part of the recall, but there wasn't any design changes to the physical parts. It sounds like the clutch replacement is being completed for any cumulative damage that could have occurred to the clutch with the current software.

The fix is just adding more IP notifications if conditions cause the clutch temperature to increase past normal operating temperatures. Power reduction could happen if the overheat conditions continue (i.e. continued clutch slippage, modulating the clutch, etc).

From 23V-116:
"FCA US will conduct a voluntary safety recall on all affected vehicles to replace the clutch assembly and update software to provide escalating visual and audible warnings to the operator, ultimately resulting in the potential reduction of engine torque capability when clutch assembly temperatures rise to a level that may damage the inner pressure plate. "

"This recall is not related to a part defect but rather a design specification where the clutch intermediate pressure plate could fracture during extreme overheating. The remedy is a clutch assembly replacement and updated software for the vehicle that mitigates safety risks related to the clutch assembly."

 

[AKDrifter]

"This recall is not related to a part defect but rather a design specification where the clutch intermediate pressure plate could fracture during extreme overheating. The remedy is a clutch assembly replacement and updated software for the vehicle that mitigates safety risks related to the clutch assembly."

This is what wouldn't make sense. They have a bad clutch design, they say they have a bad design, and then they use the exact same part to repair the design problem that forced them into a recall? They think they can just stop overheating enough that it doesn't cause damage? That just doesn't sound right. It sounds like they're blaming drivers essentially for overheating the clutch and causing the issue. Until we can get actual part numbers and side by side analysis, who knows what they're actually doing. I still haven't read any '24 6 speed JL reports though, be interested to hear how those are going.

 

[AustinL911]

This is what wouldn't make sense. They have a bad clutch design, they say they have a bad design, and then they use the exact same part to repair the design problem that forced them into a recall? They think they can just stop overheating enough that it doesn't cause damage? That just doesn't sound right. Until we can get actual part numbers and side by side analysis, who knows what they're actually doing. I still haven't read any '24 6 speed JL reports though, be interested to hear how those are going.

Its not a bad design. It's just a pressure plate that is prone to fracture and failure when used as designed under perfectly normal conditions. Nothing wrong with that design at all. No responsibility on us, whatsoever.

-Stellantis, probably

 

[AKDrifter]

Its not a bad design. It's just a pressure plate that is prone to fracture and failure when used as designed under perfectly normal conditions. Nothing wrong with that design at all. No responsibility on us, whatsoever.

-Stellantis, probably

I just edited the post to include that they're essentially blaming drivers for exploding their pressure plates. It's laughable. The aftermarket clutch guys will be selling clutches like hotcakes if they end up replacing the original clutch assembly with the exact same clutch assembly.

 

[ruggburnout]

I agree that there are inherent design flaws with this system. I will take the new clutch since I will probably have over 40k miles on the current clutch by January. At some point in the future though, I will upgrade to Centerforce as they have fixed pretty much all of the flaws in the stock system.

I'm also interested to see the condition of the pressure plate and clutch disc when they remove it. I don't anticipate any bluing on the pressure plate as I'm pretty easy on the clutch, but I did have one heating occurrence.

It was a clutch overheat message that happened recently when I was backing up a trailer on a grade... I was modulating speed with the clutch (a big no no), but with the 4.49:1 reverse ratio it's hard to just full engage the clutch without immediately going like 5-10mph. It's not completely natural to me to engage the clutch completely then immediately modulate with braking. Especially, when you have to continuously stop and start in cases like backing up a trailer.

 

[JTDay]

I mentioned many posts back that it wouldn't surprise me if the only remedy was another software update. Should be interesting to see how many people still have clutch issues if in fact the only thing getting replaced is some coding.

 

[bd100]

I suspect the design is intended to make life easier for the engine start/stop system, in which case one way to look at this is that they are doing all they can to try to continue to offer a manual transmission while still trying to meet the requirements of the regulation. I.e. Stellantis is trying hard to make us happy and perhaps anger should be directed at the regulators and law makers instead.

If the theory is true that the lightweight components are to allow the starter for ESS to survive longer, then it may be that some who get heavyweight flywheels will find the starter failing sooner than expected. (So turn it off...?) And supposedly the design helps absorb vibration, so some may find the transmission bearings fail sooner as well.

I don't know if the above is true. But I'll wait for now since my truck's clutch seems to be fine so far and I'll let others experiment with the various aftermarket replacements.

 

[ACTman]

I suspect the design is intended to make life easier for the engine start/stop system, in which case one way to look at this is that they are doing all they can to try to continue to offer a manual transmission while still trying to meet the requirements of the regulation. I.e. Stellantis is trying hard to make us happy and perhaps anger should be directed at the regulators and law makers instead.

If the theory is true that the lightweight components are to allow the starter for ESS to survive longer, then it may be that some who get heavyweight flywheels will find the starter failing sooner than expected. (So turn it off...?) And supposedly the design helps absorb vibration, so some may find the transmission bearings fail sooner as well.

I don't know if the above is true. But I'll wait for now since my truck's clutch seems to be fine so far and I'll let others experiment with the various aftermarket replacements.

No, the reduced inertia is not to help the start/stop system. Cylinder compression far outweighs flywheel inertia when it comes to loads on the starter. I did a complete breakdown of the JT/JL clutch in another thread and explained the components here: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/jt-jl-clutch-and-flywheel-explained-by-act.68758/. Make sure to see post #19.

The components are basically the same as cars making about twice the power (such as Ford Shelby GT350, and BMW M3), except the clamp load is much higher on those. The benefits of a dual-mass flywheel and twin disc (I won't go into detail here) are just not beneficial to a Jeep, imho.

As explained in my thread, the most important finding was the torque capacity of the JL/JT clutch over time is just plain inadequate. Once the clutch unknowingly slips for a prolonged period of time, there isn't enough heat capacity to prevent catastrophic failure.

There is a lot to fix on the JL/JT clutch/flywheel to make it perform and feel like it should. I highly doubt Jeep will address all the shortcomings beyond the liability concerns.

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