Diesel cooling options and ideas

[dcmdon]

All of this flailing around trying to put a larger fan in place or removing horns is pointless.

The fan is counterproductive since its only relevant when going slowly, which is not when this truck has problems.

The horns represent a very very minor incremental improvement. Which may allow you to pull your trailer up that 10% grade at 51 mph rather than 50 mph on that 95 deg day.

If we can not replace the radiator, then we need to increase the flow through the radiator significantly. To do that you need to increase the pressure gradient on the front and back of the radiator.

The front is exposed to plenty of fresh air. Are there baffles in place so that air coming through the grill can't go around the radiator? If not then installing baffles so that the front of the radiator becomes a pressure plenum would be helpful.

Next is reducing pressure on the back side of the radiator. In the engine compartment. creating vents in low pressure areas is the most effective way to do that. perhaps on the side of the truck in front of the door.

But perhaps the most effective means may be to install an engine oil cooler. These can be HUGELY effective in cooling an engine for a couple of reasons.
1) oil is able to bathe the engine in places that coolant can't. So it can absorb heat directly that coolant can't.
2) oil runs hotter than coolant. So there is a greater temperature differential between ambient and the temp of the fluid (delta T). Delta T is one factor in how much heat transfers from the radiator (whether coolant or oil) to the ambient air.

Bottom line is that an oil cooler is a very effective way to lower engine (and coolant) temps. The only issue is finding somewhere to put it. If you are willing to get creative, there is ALWAYS a way. Its just a matter of how much time and expense you are willing to go through.

Shoot, you could mount it horizontally on the hood with some scoops and it would work very very well.

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[yolo]

So removing the horns was fun!

I personally think this is a good idea. Jeep leaving the horns in the default location, especially after reading an article about all the lengths the "cooling" team went through to open up the grill to get more air to the coolers, is mind-boggling.

Now, whether or not it's worth the effort moving them is another story, but I appreciate you doing this and look forward to any results you can give.

 

[Phil3333]

All of this flailing around trying to put a larger fan in place or removing horns is pointless.

The fan is counterproductive since its only relevant when going slowly, which is not when this truck has problems.

The horns represent a very very minor incremental improvement. Which may allow you to pull your trailer up that 10% grade at 51 mph rather than 50 mph on that 95 deg day.

If we can not replace the radiator, then we need to increase the flow through the radiator significantly. To do that you need to increase the pressure gradient on the front and back of the radiator.

The front is exposed to plenty of fresh air. Are there baffles in place so that air coming through the grill can't go around the radiator? If not then installing baffles so that the front of the radiator becomes a pressure plenum would be helpful.

Next is reducing pressure on the back side of the radiator. In the engine compartment. creating vents in low pressure areas is the most effective way to do that. perhaps on the side of the truck in front of the door.

But perhaps the most effective means may be to install an engine oil cooler. These can be HUGELY effective in cooling an engine for a couple of reasons.
1) oil is able to bathe the engine in places that coolant can't. So it can absorb heat directly that coolant can't.
2) oil runs hotter than coolant. So there is a greater temperature differential between ambient and the temp of the fluid (delta T). Delta T is one factor in how much heat transfers from the radiator (whether coolant or oil) to the ambient air.

Bottom line is that an oil cooler is a very effective way to lower engine (and coolant) temps. The only issue is finding somewhere to put it. If you are willing to get creative, there is ALWAYS a way. Its just a matter of how much time and expense you are willing to go through.

Shoot, you could mount it horizontally on the hood with some scoops and it would work very very well.

This 100% I am not doing anything until someone comes out with a oil cooler kit

 

[Pike1892]

So I talked to Insane Diesel about adding a oil cooler kit to the oil filtration kit they sell. https://insanediesel.com/collection...gler-3-0l-ecodiesel-bypass-oil-filtration-kit

I was excited for this setup until they told me the filter cap they use for the kit will use the Gen 2 oil filter. Some say that this is not a big deal but I have also heard that the Gen 2 and Gen 3 are two different filters.

The other location is the oil pressure switch port and the T fitting they use will need to be custom made because the switch has a plunger in it. I am not opposed to this location but I believe it is a 1/8 or 1/4 NPT. Very small to get oil and cool it.

I was going to jump on this kit with the company but after discussion I think I am going to wait for something better to come along. Using the Gen 2 oil filter is a concern for me. Back to the drawing board.

 

[CrazyCooter]

So I talked to Insane Diesel about adding a oil cooler kit to the oil filtration kit they sell. https://insanediesel.com/collection...gler-3-0l-ecodiesel-bypass-oil-filtration-kit

I was excited for this setup until they told me the filter cap they use for the kit will use the Gen 2 oil filter. Some say that this is not a big deal but I have also heard that the Gen 2 and Gen 3 are two different filters.

The other location is the oil pressure switch port and the T fitting they use will need to be custom made because the switch has a plunger in it. I am not opposed to this location but I believe it is a 1/8 or 1/4 NPT. Very small to get oil and cool it.

I was going to jump on this kit with the company but after discussion I think I am going to wait for something better to come along. Using the Gen 2 oil filter is a concern for me. Back to the drawing board.

On one hand I know adding additional oil cooling is a good idea, but on the other......I suspect Jeep will wash it's hands of any warranty liability if there is an issue after the installation especially with the 2nd gen filter?

 

[Pike1892]

On one hand I know adding additional oil cooling is a good idea, but on the other......I suspect Jeep will wash it's hands of any warranty liability if there is an issue after the installation especially with the 2nd gen filter?

Yes exactly why I am not doing this setup anymore. My sales person told me that the dealers are now scanning the computers and any add on accessories and Jeep is finding reasons to void warranties. He did mention that he didn't think adding an oil cooler would void a warranty.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Unless the part cause ed the failure, it shouldn't void the warranty, but you hear the stories of the standard default is voided warranty.

 

[maligator]

Yes exactly why I am not doing this setup anymore. My sales person told me that the dealers are now scanning the computers and any add on accessories and Jeep is finding reasons to void warranties. He did mention that he didn't think adding an oil cooler would void a warranty.

I'm assuming he told you that after you bought the jeep lol.

 

[jsalbre]

Unless the part cause ed the failure, it shouldn't void the warranty, but you hear the stories of the standard default is voided warranty.

Forget it shouldn’t. Unless it cause the failure it *can’t* result in any voiding of the warranty. The Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act is pretty explicit.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Forget it shouldn’t. Unless it cause the failure it *can’t* result in any voiding of the warranty. The Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act is pretty explicit.

Sure is, but try to get it enforced?

 

[Ferg]

Americans seem to be more about style than substance. That is why we have [...] farkles.

What on earth is a farkle?

 

[IDAILYAHKP7]

All of this flailing around trying to put a larger fan in place or removing horns is pointless.

The fan is counterproductive since its only relevant when going slowly, which is not when this truck has problems.

The horns represent a very very minor incremental improvement. Which may allow you to pull your trailer up that 10% grade at 51 mph rather than 50 mph on that 95 deg day.

If we can not replace the radiator, then we need to increase the flow through the radiator significantly. To do that you need to increase the pressure gradient on the front and back of the radiator.

The front is exposed to plenty of fresh air. Are there baffles in place so that air coming through the grill can't go around the radiator? If not then installing baffles so that the front of the radiator becomes a pressure plenum would be helpful.

Next is reducing pressure on the back side of the radiator. In the engine compartment. creating vents in low pressure areas is the most effective way to do that. perhaps on the side of the truck in front of the door.

But perhaps the most effective means may be to install an engine oil cooler. These can be HUGELY effective in cooling an engine for a couple of reasons.
1) oil is able to bathe the engine in places that coolant can't. So it can absorb heat directly that coolant can't.
2) oil runs hotter than coolant. So there is a greater temperature differential between ambient and the temp of the fluid (delta T). Delta T is one factor in how much heat transfers from the radiator (whether coolant or oil) to the ambient air.

Bottom line is that an oil cooler is a very effective way to lower engine (and coolant) temps. The only issue is finding somewhere to put it. If you are willing to get creative, there is ALWAYS a way. Its just a matter of how much time and expense you are willing to go through.

Shoot, you could mount it horizontally on the hood with some scoops and it would work very very well.

While I agree that using the most delta T is ideal, oil coolers have advantages that radiators do not, and routing airflow properly is key to cooling, a horizontal oil cooler on top of the hood? C’mon.. Nobody is doing that, nor should they have to.

So far, the limited testing indicates that even with increased/unaltered airflow directly aimed at the cooling block, temperatures are not significantly changed. Further, that as expected, there is an area of low pressure between mid-hood and the windshield, where the best airflow over the hood is forward of middle.

Relating to your airflow statement, the next logical step would be to confirm flow in/through/around the cooling block. If, as you espoused, the air is hitting the front, but not traveling through, some method of assisting the airflow would be logical. This theory directly relates to my solid surface/fan post a few back. If air is not getting through the cooling block, regardless of how, it will never perform properly.

The bottom line for me here, is that this is an engineering problem that is beyond the scope of what 99% of people have the means to solve properly. Further, I believe it is something that needs to be addressed with the OEM, as the vehicle is clearly not fulfilling on the advertised specifications.

 

[Hondo1]

Just rolled into Montrose, four mountain passes down one more to go. I have been turning my fan on manually once oil reaches 240*. No derates today. The changes I made seem to be working, granted it’s only 75* ambient out.

 

[jeepin48]

Just rolled into Montrose, four mountain passes down one more to go. I have been turning my fan on manually once oil reaches 240*. No derates today. The changes I made seem to be working, granted it’s only 75* ambient out.

How fast do you tow that on flat grounds? Maybe you could do a flat fixed speed with the fan on and off to see how much difference there is.

 

[Pike1892]

Just rolled into Montrose, four mountain passes down one more to go. I have been turning my fan on manually once oil reaches 240*. No derates today. The changes I made seem to be working, granted it’s only 75* ambient out.

How fast were you towing up the grade? Also in the flats? and how are you manually turning the fan on?

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