Anyone else running 37s no lift?

[cmcveay]

looks great, can't wait to see it with the lift.

HA! That's two of us!

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[Zachanadandy]

Rear fully stuffed

Rear fully flexed

37x12.50x17 BFG KO2 on stock Mojave optional wheels. BFG's run a little small, I think mine measured out to 35-7/8". I don't remember. No lift. No rub. I trimmed the inner fender liner a little and added one washer on each side of the steering stops.

Your fully stuffed picture isn't actually fully stuffed though? Unless you're running shocks that are too long, fully stuffed would have the foam bump stop bottomed out and compressed flat. Yours isn't even touching yet. There's nothing stopping that rear axle from at least 2" more uptravel which would likely mean a whole bunch of tire rub. It's the same reason the forklift test or putting one side up on an obstacle doesn't work. There's enough weight transfer and spring pressure to stop it from actually bottoming out. Lift opposite corners and it's a different ball game. Jump the truck so the axle fully bottoms and I'm guessing the no lift 37s crowd quickly becomes the quick detach fender crowd.

 

[fourfa]

Agreed, that's not flexed out and if that's what you're using to decide it's OK and safe - be ready for a surprise some day. Stock control arms or swaybar might limit uptravel to what you see there in a slow-load static situation like that, but when you hit something hard at speed, unexpectedly, they'll flex all the way to the metal collar.

When I set up my bump stops to protect my extended-length shocks, it was with no springs, no foam, no sway bars. Takes a while, a lot of jack stands and jacks, and some grunting but it's the only way to be safe and certain.

 

[KevinC]

Your fully stuffed picture isn't actually fully stuffed though? Unless you're running shocks that are too long, fully stuffed would have the foam bump stop bottomed out and compressed flat. Yours isn't even touching yet. There's nothing stopping that rear axle from at least 2" more uptravel which would likely mean a whole bunch of tire rub. It's the same reason the forklift test or putting one side up on an obstacle doesn't work. There's enough weight transfer and spring pressure to stop it from actually bottoming out. Lift opposite corners and it's a different ball game. Jump the truck so the axle fully bottoms and I'm guessing the no lift 37s crowd quickly becomes the quick detach fender crowd.

I don't jump my truck, never intend to either. I have been down a washboard road at 45mph and cycled the suspension to the max I ever intend to, and heard/felt the front bumpstops fully engaging. You see where I'm going? Everyone uses their truck different. If I had any intention of raising opposite front/rear tires to maximum articulation, I would make adjustments to accommodate any rubbing. The pictures I posted is to the point of raising the opposite tire. I ran those trails for three hours that day putting my truck into any scenario I may encounter at a later adventure. No rubbing. Call me crazy but I'm good with what I have.

 

[KevinC]

Agreed, that's not flexed out and if that's what you're using to decide it's OK and safe - be ready for a surprise some day. Stock control arms or swaybar might limit uptravel to what you see there in a slow-load static situation like that, but when you hit something hard at speed, unexpectedly, they'll flex all the way to the metal collar.

When I set up my bump stops to protect my extended-length shocks, it was with no springs, no foam, no sway bars. Takes a while and some grunting but it's the only way to be safe and certain.

There you said it, stock control arms and sway bars might limit uptravel. Yes sir, I agree. The whole reason I am comfortable with my set-up. If I off road to an extent of creating a situation that is going to damage my truck or limit my capability, I will make adjustments.

 

[KevinC]

You're absolutely right. I'm an idiot and have no idea what I'm talking about. As you suggested, i don't know anything. I haven't ridden in my vehicle with the sway bars both disconnected and connected on the same trails, beaches, and fire roads. My knowledge and personal experience on the matter is exactly equal in value to your broad suppositions and zero personal experience.

But just as a thought exercise: is there any reason why Jeep might force their SBD to reconnect above 25mph on the rubicon? Because if you're not aware, vehicle manufacturers sometimes make decisions based not on what makes the vehicle the best, but rather their expectations of liability.

How many posts do you see here about people binding up their truck in 4hi on pavement because they thought rain was slippery enough? Now change those posts to "why did my truck roll when i was doing 80mph on route 70? All i did was turn my sway bar disconnect on at high speed!"

Where did someone say that you have no idea what you are talking about? Or suggested you don't know anything? I think the consensus so far is...you do you. Everyone runs their trucks different on different trails. That is what makes us unique. Calm.

 

[arskemp]

I was searching through the showcases and i def haven't seen em all. but i notice everyone who is running 37s or bigger are 2in lift min for the most part. As far as i can tell at least for my Mojave, no lift is needed. did i get lucky? or do people lift for more articulation/look? I run with swaybars on trail and full flexed out nothing touches. I kinda like the low and tucked look. the only reason i see to 2in lift is for the 392 swap in the future. AMW4x4 said its needed to clear engine components. If you are running 37s no lift. please share a pic if ya got it.

Not speaking for everyone, but I went in this order (I have a Mojave):
- Offroaded, noted areas where I would scrape
- Came across a deal on the AEV 2" lift, snagged it and installed Apex Autolynx along with it.
- Went back and redid some trails. Noticed I still scraped, but less
- Found a deal on 37s and jumped on them (haven't put them to the test yet though).

In all honesty, I think that if I didn't have sway bar disconnects I would probably be fine most of the time with 37s at stock height (at least with the KO2s I have). I, however, love the sway bar disconnects on less than ~ 45mph dirt roads / fire trails. Additionally, based on my experience thus far there are still scenarios where I feel comfortable driving but would probably scrape with just the tires, just the lift, but (hopefully) not both.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I don't jump my truck, never intend to either. I have been down a washboard road at 45mph and cycled the suspension to the max I ever intend to, and heard/felt the front bumpstops fully engaging. You see where I'm going? Everyone uses their truck different. If I had any intention of raising opposite front/rear tires to maximum articulation, I would make adjustments to accommodate any rubbing. The pictures I posted is to the point of raising the opposite tire. I ran those trails for three hours that day putting my truck into any scenario I may encounter at a later adventure. No rubbing. Call me crazy but I'm good with what I have.

If it's working for you and you'll never actually flex it out all the way that's great. My point was more for others considering 37s and no lift. Stating that they don't rub at full stuff with a picture clearly showing that the suspension has several inches of uptravel left is misleading. In my opinion bump stops determine tire clearance and there isn't enough stock for 37s. For moderate use its probably fine, but it doesn't clear fully stuffed.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Agreed, that's not flexed out and if that's what you're using to decide it's OK and safe - be ready for a surprise some day. Stock control arms or swaybar might limit uptravel to what you see there in a slow-load static situation like that, but when you hit something hard at speed, unexpectedly, they'll flex all the way to the metal collar.

When I set up my bump stops to protect my extended-length shocks, it was with no springs, no foam, no sway bars. Takes a while and some grunting but it's the only way to be safe and certain.

Your fully stuffed picture isn't actually fully stuffed though? Unless you're running shocks that are too long, fully stuffed would have the foam bump stop bottomed out and compressed flat. Yours isn't even touching yet. There's nothing stopping that rear axle from at least 2" more uptravel which would likely mean a whole bunch of tire rub. It's the same reason the forklift test or putting one side up on an obstacle doesn't work. There's enough weight transfer and spring pressure to stop it from actually bottoming out. Lift opposite corners and it's a different ball game. Jump the truck so the axle fully bottoms and I'm guessing the no lift 37s crowd quickly becomes the quick detach fender crowd.

idk imo the forklift test works if ya lift till 2 tires leave the ground and its rocking. Thats what i did. swaybar keep everything there. I hear ya on the jumping, its been my concern too. Ive done a couple 60mph crest that got me about 2 ft ish of air. didn't touch fenders, shockingly. its only the front i'm worried about and i think it would hit hard if you turned hard and manage to full compress it but again hard to do with sway bars on. and why i wont take em off. I don't think it would "rapid Kinetic delete" the fender per se. but i could see em getting knock loose or braking a couple clips. I've seen plenty of other brands cycle big tires into a wheel that looks like it shouldn't fit but somehow does. stock high clearance Jeep fenders look pretty accommodating to everything under a true to size 37 or 38 i guess. 35.5 KO2s that BFG calls 37s, probably won't ever touch. My mickey tompsons tho, at 36.2 in, maybe not so much. but hey if you break it, you have justification to buy a better one. wifey said i couldn't do too many mods, didn't say nothing about too many repairs. ?

 

[PuddleJumper]

Not speaking for everyone, but I went in this order (I have a Mojave):
- Offroaded, noted areas where I would scrape
- Came across a deal on the AEV 2" lift, snagged it and installed Apex Autolynx along with it.
- Went back and redid some trails. Noticed I still scraped, but less
- Found a deal on 37s and jumped on them (haven't put them to the test yet though).

In all honesty, I think that if I didn't have sway bar disconnects I would probably be fine most of the time with 37s at stock height (at least with the KO2s I have). I, however, love the sway bar disconnects on less than ~ 45mph dirt roads / fire trails. Additionally, based on my experience thus far there are still scenarios where I feel comfortable driving but would probably scrape with just the tires, just the lift, but (hopefully) not both.

that makes sense, i really have been considering the apex design disconnect kit for mine. only problem is i wheel with my OG group and they are all still Toyota. They can't do anything technical by Jeep standards, so its been hard to push down the rock crawler tech tree so to speak. we mostly stick to overgrown light trails with the occasional obstacle but they all take the bypasses. with my groups limitation in mind there's not much i "need". i got the 37s for comfort over rocky beds and snow wheeling stuff. I'll definitely get a 2in lift in the future, but i want oriented to hold by planned hemi swap. i don't wanna buy a 2in kit twice cus i changed the dynamics. plus i still run my stocks daily so 2in on 33s would be unsightly. for now its what works, and i thought it would be cool to share cus i alot of people say u can't. long term with a 392 i plan on 2in lift with 35s as the daily size and 37s for trail. idk why i'm having bad luck with the one time i unbolted the front. my wife had us stop multiple times for breaks, and i kept having to slow down on the quick bits cus everything would load to the outside front tire and then it would understeer like a bitch. swaybar on seems to introduce oversteer but i can work with that. I ran my tundra with no front or rear bar and it was great, but also IFS so not exactly apples to apples.

 

[Zachanadandy]

idk imo the forklift test works if ya lift till 2 tires leave the ground and its rocking. Thats what i did. swaybar keep everything there. I hear ya on the jumping, its been my concern too. Ive done a couple 60mph crest that got me about 2 ft ish of air. didn't touch fenders, shockingly. its only the front i'm worried about and i think it would hit hard if you turned hard and manage to full compress it but again hard to do with sway bars on. and why i wont take em off. I don't think it would "rapid Kinetic delete" the fender per se. but i could see em getting knock loose or braking a couple clips. I've seen plenty of other brands cycle big tires into a wheel that looks like it shouldn't fit but somehow does. stock high clearance Jeep fenders look pretty accommodating to everything under a true to size 37 or 38 i guess. 35.5 KO2s that BFG calls 37s, probably won't ever touch. My mickey tompsons tho, at 36.2 in, maybe not so much. but hey if you break it, you have justification to buy a better one. wifey said i couldn't do too many mods, didn't say nothing about too many repairs. ?

Did you flex test the jeep unloaded? Do you ever wheel it loaded up with camping gear etc? I agree with fourfa, the sway bar and static load don't represent the real potential for flex. It's kind of why metalcloak built their cti trailer vs the much cheaper rti Tampa used for decades. Lifting opposite corners will more accurately reflect real world flex potential. In my opinion the whole discussion misses the mark on suspension design. Lifts are for ride height and uptravel. Bumpstops are for tire clearance and determining maximum shock compressed length. With a fender chop I could see 37s and no lift possibly clearing. Without it I'd want to add at least 1" of bumpstop. At that point uptravel would suck and breakover and departure angles still aren't any good even on 37s. That's why I went with the aev 2" kit. Proper bumpstops for 37s or even 38s. Ride is still in the stock bypass zones. Uptravel and downtravel can still use the full shock stroke. And the belly drags a whole lot less now.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Did you flex test the jeep unloaded? Do you ever wheel it loaded up with camping gear etc? I agree with fourfa, the sway bar and static load don't represent the real potential for flex. It's kind of why metalcloak built their cti trailer vs the much cheaper rti Tampa used for decades. Lifting opposite corners will more accurately reflect real world flex potential. In my opinion the whole discussion misses the mark on suspension design. Lifts are for ride height and uptravel. Bumpstops are for tire clearance and determining maximum shock compressed length. With a fender chop I could see 37s and no lift possibly clearing. Without it I'd want to add at least 1" of bumpstop. At that point uptravel would suck and breakover and departure angles still aren't any good even on 37s. That's why I went with the aev 2" kit. Proper bumpstops for 37s or even 38s. Ride is still in the stock bypass zones. Uptravel and downtravel can still use the full shock stroke. And the belly drags a whole lot less now.

i hear ya. i did it with full gear weight. figured i'd be fine unloaded.

 

[Reddog]

I was searching through the showcases and i def haven't seen em all. but i notice everyone who is running 37s or bigger are 2in lift min for the most part. As far as i can tell at least for my Mojave, no lift is needed. did i get lucky? or do people lift for more articulation/look? I run with swaybars on trail and full flexed out nothing touches. I kinda like the low and tucked look. the only reason i see to 2in lift is for the 392 swap in the future. AMW4x4 said its needed to clear engine components. If you are running 37s no lift. please share a pic if ya got it.

Just because you can run 37"'s with no lift does not mean it's a good idea. I was shocked how mushy my 2023 JTR's suspension was when I drove it home. I cured it by adding an AEV lift with 37"'s. If you just add the very heavy 37"'s to an already mushy suspension, you are not helping yourself. Something has to resist the added unsprung weight of the tires. I would have sold my JT if the lift had not corrected the issue. Sounds like you have kind of made up your mind on this anyway. But if you don't off road or crawl, then don't lift it. But your ride and handling are going to suffer for it. Just my opinion. Good luck to you.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Just because you can run 37"'s with no lift does not mean it's a good idea. I was shocked how mushy my 2023 JTR's suspension was when I drove it home. I cured it by adding an AEV lift with 37"'s. If you just add the very heavy 37"'s to an already mushy suspension, you are not helping yourself. Something has to resist the added unsprung weight of the tires. I would have sold my JT if the lift had not corrected the issue. Sounds like you have kind of made up your mind on this anyway. But if you don't off road or crawl, then don't lift it. But your ride and handling are going to suffer for it. Just my opinion. Good luck to you.

it does suffer how you said but its manageable. the reason im not lifting now is because i have 392 swap in the works so i would have to redo any existing kit to handle the heavier weight of the new motor. which would make any previous kit just money in the toilet. The Mojave has some pretty beefy shocks and they handle the 37s pretty well. My aunt foxes on her rubi definitely would not though. they are so poorly dampened.

 

[Phishs]

Rear fully stuffed

Rear fully flexed

37x12.50x17 BFG KO2 on stock Mojave optional wheels. BFG's run a little small, I think mine measured out to 35-7/8". I don't remember. No lift. No rub. I trimmed the inner fender liner a little and added one washer on each side of the steering stops.

What psi did you find was the best for these tires on stock wheels?

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